Do you go to the dungeon?

Table of Contents

New party

Fox said on 2019-06-07, 17:22

(writing as Fox for among the last times)

So, after the TPK (of the present members), Sandra asked if we talk when we make new characters and I realized it could be a good idea to do so.

We can plan the three new members to have some kind of reason they're together. It can be as simple as they oppose Acererak, or something else.

I was planning on using Myrodan, who I made at some point in the past, a wood elf cleric of the Emerald Enclave, whose companions died fighting the zombies, who probably came to Ohmu to find the source of the zombie plague, realized Raznzi is dead, and continued on against the Soulmonger next. Any unnatural threat to nature is his enemy.

Others were going for the idea of a full Yuan Ti party. Is that still the case? If yes, describe your characters.

Sandra said on 2019-06-07, 17:44

Great initiative, Myrodan!

I was thinking about my frustration with the "each hobo an island" and the fun of an all-[something] party (all monk, all hin, all criminal, all yuan-ti, all caster, all fighter, all urchin, whatever) but I turned to the perfect book to soothe my worried mind: Hillfolk.

Reading more carefully, that game doesn't seem to mind these kinda disparate concepts that like "OK we're an all wood-elf party except for Oscar he is some grouchy guy we found".

But what is good is relationships. Kind of why Fiasco also works; because it defines the relationships before it defines the characters.

• Brother • Son • Husband • Best friend • Rival • Teacher • Boss • Crush • Partners in crime • Role-model/Hero

Please define relationships to other PCs (the more the better), work together on this but that starts with one of you proposing it, obv,

what you want from at least two of the people you have some kinda relationship with, some ideas are:

• approval • love • to punish them • to be punished by them • validation • respect • equality

and ask them why you can't have it. ("Why you can't ever, ever have it" was an overstatement. Instead, it should be "why you can't have it right now" – people can change).

The "Bonds" space on your character sheet is a perfect space for this stuff.

"I want to be understood by my husband Myrodan" or whatever.

Sandra said on 2019-06-07, 17:46

I tried adding some of the PCs in as columns and as rows, not sure if that's helpful or just dumb.

If you like the idea you can go to "Edit columns" to add the columns in.

If you don't you can go there to remove columns.

Sandra said on 2019-06-07, 17:47

I tried adding some of the PCs in as columns and as rows, not sure if that's helpful or just dumb.

If you like the idea you can go to "Edit columns" to add the columns in.

If this was a bad idea, we can remove all columns and this'll be just a thread

Soakosh said on 2019-06-07, 18:05

Im abit of the outcast in the yuan ti temple as I do not worship the right god. But I am usaly on scouting duty inside the city anyway so I would not need to get in to many arguments with Ras´nsi and his loyal followers. My reason to "leave" the temple for a short time is that my master died and now Keneth have the power. And it seems to all be linked to Acererak and his starting of this strange machine, to lured all the red wizards and so in to Omu. So if I stop the reason for strong adventurer comming to Omu wile I myself get stronger, then maybe I can take controll of the temple and bring all to order again.

Sandra said on 2019-06-07, 18:07

I love this D&D group

Samo said on 2019-06-07, 20:04

Think I allready did meet Myrodan during a trip to the chult djungel. But seems he got scared when a koboled awoke him from his slumber.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 07:16

OK so this is the homework.

  1. Set up relationships with each other, make as many or few as you want. Suggestion: engaged, divorced, best friends, teacher, rival, employee, just plain old fellow party member. You don't have to have any; they're just to make this next step easier.
  2. Find two people and what you want (emotionally) from them (once you've done that and they've been OK with that, set ✔ above). They have to decide why you can't have that, at least not right now,. (Once that's been set up, change the ✔ to a ✨.) Suggestions: love, approval, revenge, distance, closeness, validation, respect

You need to have this set up with two people and then some people will have it set up with you. That does not have to match up to exactly two. For example it's fine if everyone wants something from Soakosh for example.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 07:18

You can do it on here or via email or we can do it at the table. We'll do as much as we have time to before Tuesday. But once Tuesday arrives, let's take a break from this project because we have a guest player. And then resume it after. Thanx for reading♥

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 10:01

Från och med onsdag (dvs inte förrän EFTER nästa spelmöte) fryser vi XPn för dom rollpersoner som inte fixat två såna här ouppfyllbara wants till andra. Seems like desperate measures but sometimes it's got to be done. Men som sagt är det nåt vi också kan göra vid själva bordet om ni inte har tid/lust med homework.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 10:07

Tycker det är en bra åtgärd, kan också lösa hur vi ska hantera dom som inte har valt spells och som har andra oegentligheter på rollformuläret osv

Halo said on 2019-06-08, 12:29

Think this could lead to some great roleplaying but what about the emotionally disabled Yuan-Ti? Shall we reconsider playing them since they don't do hillfolk very well or should they find reasons to fake emotional wants towards humans, elves and hins?

On the other hand there are some Yuan-Ti that actually have some feelings. Its considered a flaw in their society but those Yuan-Ti might be able to do some real hillfolking

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 12:32

A great, interesting, a difficult question!

I like your ideas so far; any more ideas?

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 13:18

I would like to not do Hillfolk-style "what do you want from the other person/why you can't have it" relationships, especially not with everyone in the group, for various reasons. I think we can establish some sort of relationships based on our backgrounds/descriptions, but only where it makes sense. Do other people agree?

I'd propose, for example, if Soakosh agrees, that we met when they were in hiding in Ohmu after Raznzi died, we at first were cautious of each other, but realized that we have no interest in hurting each other, me being set on destroying the Soulmonger (so not caring about anyone who doesn't stand in the way), and Soakosh not being bound to protect against outsiders anymore. Then we briefly talked and realized we both want the Soulmonger destroyed, and we could band up. Not sure if I should say this openly, but I guess Myrodan at least mistrusts Soakosh, but has been convinced that for now they are allies and does not fear them.

This could encompass Natsalia as well, if they are also a Yuan-Ti and were with Soakosh when Myrodan met Soakosh.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 13:27

I didn't say everyone, I said: wants from two people each; and then, obv, the flipside of that is that some [not necessarily exactly two] people will have wants from you.

Your proposed backstory is awesome♥♥

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 13:29

But the wants can be pretty minor if that's the only thing that makes sense

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 13:30

Ah right! Yes, indeed. Still, I would still like to not do "what do you want from the other person/why you can't have it" style.

Glad you like the proposed backstory! I hope the others will too :)

I'm curious to see how Myrodan's obsession with protecting/keeping alive companions will combine with allies he doesn't exactly trust or feels very devoted to.

Halo said on 2019-06-08, 13:34

Remember that yuan-ti purebloods are near humanlike and often try to hide the small differences with clothing and such. So unless you get real close to them or spying when they are eatin live mice or something like that, I think it would be hard to actually tell them apart from humans

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 13:38

We've tried for this campaign to skip out on that style and that has lead to so many problems, it's not really been working. Aimless interactions & needling, not really getting to know each other's characters, things like "oh, I thought that engagement thing was just a joke" etc.

I like where you're going with Myrodan;

Your set up with Myrodan's (what's the pronoun?) trust issue is perfect; you want clarity on whether or not you can trust Soakosh & Natsalia, but you don't have that clarity right now because of _.

And bam, once they've filled in that blank, you've got your two wants & are golden.

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 13:50

I don't think that it's a binary: skipping the Hillfolk style does not cause those problems, and using it doesn't necessarily fix them.

Myrodan is a he. However, he doesn't want clarity on whether or not he can trust them, he simply doesn't, because they were part of Raznzi's army, who caused the zombie plague (assuming he understands that they were, of course). The only way that can change is if after the Soulmonger affair is resolved, they continue to be companions for some reason, although it's doubtful.

I don't really mind us framing it the way you proposed, though, if Soakosh and Natsalia want to as well, since you also really want to. I'm just not sure I'll work with the system very well.

PS. I'm not sure what needling is in this context BTW :)

Soakosh said on 2019-06-08, 13:57

Would be after the nightspeaker died and Keneth toke over, but yee not to long ago. And it might simply be that you don´t know that Soakosh is a yuan ti yet. Might be that I want some help to attack the yuan ti temple and kill Keneth but you wanna stop the soulmonger first. Or that I want to be the leader of the other yuan ti but they see me as an outsider still and do not want to follow.

Halo said on 2019-06-08, 14:01

I think the most important thing with hillfolk where the scenes. And we still do some improvised scenes like when Laratha and Skelaw discussed the difference between patrons and gods but having some structure would help.

What about setting up some hillfolky scenes during the longrest?

Happy San said on 2019-06-08, 14:14

Great thread you guys♥♥

"skipping the Hillfolk style does not cause those problems"

I disagree, I believe strongly it's a pretty direct causal link.

"using it doesn't necessarily fix them"

True, it might not be enough, but I believe it's a necessary foundation. If it's not enough, I have plenty of further ideas, but I don't want to jump the gun in case it is enough. Maybe a little can go a long way;

For the same reason I scaled back on the whole "all- party" thing and on having a big relationship web and just started with the wants [even though I do encourage some relationships because that makes it easier to come up with wants].

"I don't really mind us framing it the way you proposed"

Good! Or some tweak on that. The fact that you positioned your character as 100% unchangeable worries me though… like, good luck with roleplay?


Such as Laratha drawing a mustache on Samo, or you not taking Cora's attention seriously. Or for that matter, tavern teatime with Oscar in the Forge of Fury game. The sorta aimless attempts at interaction that arise when there's no clear relationship structure. Which I don't blame anyone for (I love this group), it's been the system's fault. That's why something like Fiasco or (vanilla) Hillfolk, where you create relationships before you even create the characters, work so well.

"I think the most important thing with hillfolk were the scenes."

We've had plenty of opportunity for these types of conversations (to get insp), at rests (as you point out), but without a clear grasp on each other's characters & relationships it's hard to motivate them.

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 14:16

Hm, do you think Soakosh told Myrodan he wants help with killing Keneth? I'm not sure Myrodan would play along with that. And in that case he'd know Soakosh is a Yuan-Ti.

Or perhaps he doesn't know Soakosh is a Yuan-Ti, and Soakosh didn't tell him why he wants to destroy the Soulmonger? What do you prefer?

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 14:20

Obv it's also a big factor that my main kick&motivation with regards to D&D is trying out game design ideas

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 14:21

@Myrodan: I'm really happy with how you're workshopping those kinds of things out the other players rn & that you started this thread

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 14:27

I didn't position myself as unchangeable, though. I just followed the roleplay of what I think my character would do, whether he trusts his Yuan-Ti companions cannot come from them, it comes from the situation.

I love when we do scenes, for the sake of scenes and to discover each others' characters and learn things and get immersed and feel things. I feel very uncomfortable when somebody pays insp for somebody else to give in arbitrarily, though, and have one's roleplay dictated by that.

I do think creating relationships works, though, and it's why I started this thread!

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 14:31

@Sandra great! I like this kind of thing.

Halo said on 2019-06-08, 14:35

We've had plenty of opportunity for these types of conversations (to get insp), at rests (as you point out), but without a clear grasp on each other's characters & relationships it's hard to motivate them

True some bonds between characters are nessesary but I think the problem is that when we are fighting for our lives in the dungeon its easy to forgo such interaction in favor of strategy talk and thinking about which way to go. With a set hillfolk round once a day I think we could get some more regular socialising going even in the deadliest of dungeons.

And maybe it does not even have to be very formal, just someone saying "hey since we are resting now, does anyone want to set up a scene?"

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 14:41

"From the situation"

Well, setting your sights on the soulmonger is kind of a high bar; it's a good starting bar but maybe the bar can change during play. Or not, but that's what we're playing to find out

"I feel very uncomfortable when somebody pays insp for somebody else to give in arbitrarily"

Oh, you didn't see that that rule was changed a few days ago! Yeah, I realized that the insp econ was not the part of Hillfolk that worked so well for us in the past, in fact, Hillfolk kinda worked in spite of the econ.

"I love when we do scenes, for the sake of scenes"

I kind of pretty much always want to "play to find out" things, rather than play qua play. That goes both for procedural ("do you survive the kobold arrow") scenes and for dramatic / character scenes. But that's just my taste.

As DM, I kind of need to try to develop a good sense for that, it helps with the pacing of the game; when to move time quickly and when to slow down and give info and ask what you folx do. We zoom in when we need clarity and we zoom out when there's no real "question" at stake.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 14:42

"And maybe it does not even have to be very formal, just someone saying 'hey since we are resting now, does anyone want to set up a scene?'"

Right! Or "talk about something" or whatever we end up calling these conversations, if we want to get away from the scene/movie/camera metaphors

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 14:56

Read the new insp rules, without the forced yielding, I'm quite fine with them! Thanks!

As for scenes, I agree, it's nicer when we find out things about the characters, but sometimes that can happen even if we start a scene without having something specific in mind to find out, I think.

Will be AFK for a while, thanks for the talk! Soakosh and Natsalia, please write your thoughts about our chars.

Samo, I don't remember our interaction so much, I'll give a thought to what our relat can be.

Soakosh said on 2019-06-08, 19:26

Guess if it is ok for Sandra then I might be using disguise and act partly like a human. Only one physical think that is a dead ringer for yuan ti or sorcerer. If you know I am a yuan ti or not might be another thing, but I guess I would try to keep it a secret. I might simply have hinted/asked for help to attack the leader of the yuan ti. Wile you might have priority on fixing the soulmonger.

Sandra said on 2019-06-08, 19:32

I'm ok with either♥

Fox/Myrodan said on 2019-06-08, 20:51

Alright, let's say you've hidden it from Myrodan. Perhaps Myrodan thinks you're after the Yuan-Ti leader to cripple the Yuan-Ti organization rather than take it over.

Heh, this feels like it might create serious party conflict down the line. If it comes to that it could get messy, heh. Might be interesting, though, we'll see.

Halo said on 2019-06-10, 23:43

Emetzu is a native monk with dark brown skin, short curly orange hair and red eyes. He dress in darkred robes and is often seen smiling.

As you meet him in Omu he tells you he saw another party enter the tomb of the nine gods some days ago but he didn't manage to get in before the door closed. He ask you to help him find the cubes and get into the tomb to stop the madness going on in there. ⇧

Halo said on 2019-06-11, 07:12

Oh btw I just assumed the door was closed by now. If not it doesn't change much

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 07:27

Right. You guys have a new expedition and you cubed your way in and then you lost the cubes and got locked in again and that whole ordeal can be mined for backstory conflicts etc

Mikael E said on 2019-06-11, 12:07

Or we can play it out. I got my spare so we can do some Omu stuff first if you like. And Samo have only meet Myrodan before that I can remember.

San said on 2019-06-11, 12:18



  1. That might be really good, get some coherence in the new group, esp with a guest char (Catherine)


A. I don't have time to prep a bunch of Omu stuff today because I'm meeting Cat at the station soon.

B. If you happen play it out in a way that you prevent the door from closing, that might come at the expense of the integrity of the game state for the surviving members of original expedition (Ran, Samo, Ash)

San said on 2019-06-11, 12:19

Gonna think about it!

What do the rest of you say?

suuuuper busy day for me today but we already do have a bunch of Omu prep from before. half-forgotten

San said on 2019-06-11, 12:23

That we don't have Natsalia is a con as well

Halo said on 2019-06-11, 12:40

I was thinking we could » this. Let the game start in the tomb with Myradin and Emetzu joining the party. Maybe we could fill in what happend in omu afterwards

Halo said on 2019-06-11, 12:43

But since we are only new party members this time we could of course play it out but that may be repetetive

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 12:48

Yeah, when you » that means you have so much more control over what happens / has happened.

How about… this!

A quick l'il prologue (sort of like the "This is ___ when she…" epilogue in fiasco) about before you entered the tomb and then we'll start up on level 1 with the door just closing behind you.

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 12:49

And with Soakash, Myrodan, Emetzu and [Cat's new character] as the party

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 12:50

I'll ask Cat if she can be an Emerald Enclave member too, Myrodan, if you feel that enhances your concept rather than tread on its toes? Up to you (if you don't answer in time I'm gonna do it)

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 12:51

Since you don't have Starfallen, make sure to have light!

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 13:46

Or if she wants to be Yuan-Ti

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 13:54

är det nån som hinner köpa körsbär åt mig

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 14:01


Halo said on 2019-06-11, 14:06

Cat får jättegärna spela bard eller wizard med leonis tiny hut

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 14:07

Hon är 100% envis med att vara en striker caster typ witch eller sorc

Halo said on 2019-06-11, 14:20

är det en chaos sorc på gång?

Halo said on 2019-06-11, 15:04

Ska bli spännande att se vad alla kokat ihop

Sandra said on 2019-06-11, 17:42

We are home now jobbar på rollisen

Ran said on 2019-06-13, 20:11

I should have Two Rivals™. One who I always get into arguments with. One with whom I'm dead silent. Do you know who you are? (▼ω▼)

Soakosh said on 2019-06-14, 16:11

Guess I can be someone you do not like. Mages vs tricksters are a bit like pros vs amature casters.

Sandra said on 2019-06-14, 16:20

URBRA att ni jobbar på rellarna här på hemsidan♥♥♥♥♥

Soakosh kom ihåg att du har ju Samo också

Om Catherine hoppar in en liten stund imorgon så kan vi också jobba på rellarna efter att hon har gått. Jag kan töa upp XP:n fram till dess

Mikael E said on 2019-06-14, 17:44

Sure upp till dig. Samo får ju vara lite off nu när de andra är i grupp. Kände att det är bättre att skapa relationerna klart där innan, då alla är "nya" i den gruppen. Samo får vi se vad han vill eller inte vill ha när alla kommer tillbaka i en större grupp. Vi skulle ju teoretiskt kunna rädda Cora nu med om så skulle önskas.

Sandra said on 2019-06-14, 23:08

Sant, jag gillar på nåt sätt att det finns några reserver på gång. Känns som att det blir kontinuitet i partyt av det.

Ran said on 2019-06-15, 18:15

✔ Ran + Myrodan = Silent Jealosy

Ran wants to learn all Myrodan's spells but can't and don't even want to see it 😡

✔ Ran + Soakosh = Heated Disagreement

Ran wants Soakosh to be more transparent, but Soakosh seems to be immune to every argument 💣

Sandra said on 2019-06-16, 19:28

Ran har fattat hur detta system ska funka! bra

Natsalia said on 2019-06-22, 16:31

☑️ Natsalia + Emetzu = Loyal Friendship

Natsalia wants to gain Emetzu's loyalty as a battle partner. 🎎

☐ Natsalia + Soakosh = Transparency

Natsalia wants Soakosh to be transparent with his motives and actions.* 👻

*(This is a suggestion on a relationship Mikael E)

☐ Natsalia + Myrodan = Regal Worship

Natsalia wants submission from Myrodan.* 🙏 *(This is a suggestion Alex - we can discuss this)

Sandra said on 2019-06-22, 18:03

Natsalia har fattat hur detta system ska funka! bra

Emetzu said on 2019-06-23, 00:55

Natsalia can never be my equal in battle since she is to reliant on otherwordly powers.

On the other hand I want to get a very good relation to Natsalia because of her knowledge in sacrifical rituals. Why can't I have that Natsalia?

Emetzu said on 2019-06-23, 01:08

Emetzu+Soakosh = Respect. Emetzu who looks up to Soakosh want's to show him what he is made of. Why can't he have his respect?

Emetzu+Myrrodan = Emetzu wants Myrrodan to stop patronising him. Why would that never happen?